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Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 337
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 01:41 pm: | 
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How about someone doing a blurb on a "Grab Bag", what it is, why you should have one, what should be in it? |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 329
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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I was planning on introducing the Precruise checklist I use, discussing the reasoning behind why I added various parts. I wasn't planning on getting into the details regarding each area due to time restrictions, but I can if you would like.
Another idea: Why don't you Saul and John download the checklist (its in the Escape area of 214) and reply back to me your areas of interest and I'll do a short blurb on each area. |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 404
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 12:15 am: |
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Ted, you said you'd be happy to take charge of the organizational part of the meeting on Feb 6 with charts and nav tools, galley equipment, safety equipment, dinghies, and spares. Please let me know what and how you plan to handle these items. |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 403
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 12:10 am: |
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MST 215 Skippers!
I'm late checking in, but have any of you decided to take another topic for this next meeting?
We will have less than an hour I think, and in any event we will begin with the cruise organization once Mark concludes his lecture. But in the meantime, there are topics we can take up for discussion.
For example, I had a discussion with Mark Howe about jacklines and their purpose and placement on the vessel, and thought it would be a good new topic to explore. Do they keep you from going overboard, or do they just keep you dragging along side once you do...? Anyone want to tackle that?
For the rest of you, last meeting we discussed bleeding the diesel fuel system, provisioning, and using a meter to help detect and diagnose electrical problems aboard. John Fellner, if you can summarize and post any usefule bits of your discussion for later reference, it would be very helpful. BTW, thanks for the meters!
Well, bring what you got. See you then. |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 307
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 02:54 pm: |
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My recollection of the two cruises was that there was no specific direction given to communicate with the other vessels on any regular schedule. By formal I mean that a communciation process is specifically agreed upon by the skippers and followed during the cruise. I picked an hourly schedule for the benefit of the crew whom may not have had much experience with VHF communications and to help them become comfortable in using the radio. I realize that in the real world it would likely be much more infrequent...
Regarding the word limitation, I first tried to put some nonsense after the real post and color the foreground and background the same color. But I was thwarted by the board in that it colors alternating posts' background white and gray, so you'll never know which background will be used. So then I went in as moderator after posting and deleted the nonsense text, leaving the actual text I wanted. |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 399
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 02:11 pm: |
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How is "formal" different from just keeping in touch with every boat every hour?
Yes, how did you get away with just 3 words in your post? |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 306
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 01:21 pm: |
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On the last two Saddleback cruises I involved with inter-vessel communication was at times erratic for various reasons. To help forestall a repetition, I'd like to set up a formal radio schedule between vessels, say every hour on the quarter hour. This will help crew get some microphone time while allowing skippers to practice receiving position reports from other boats. What say you? |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 394
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:22 pm: |
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First off, please refer to the syllabus, page 2, "Responsibilities of the Student Skipper," posted a few weeks ago. The items on this sheet and the vessel checklist are essentially what you need to take care of. For more details, see below.
Right, the student skipper is responsible for ensuring that all that is needed is aboard. It works the same way as last time, but when you were student skipper on Susie's boat she probably had more stuff on it. I can lend a hand by responding to requests, but it's largely your job to get this stuff done.
Nothing will get done for sure unless you see to it. For example, last year I suggested to every student skipper that he make sure his boat was fueled in advance. One student skipper did not think about fuel until after the fuel dock closed on the night of our departure, and he discovered he needed some. As a result he had to scrounge up a jerry can, get in his car, find a service station that had diesel, and then get it back to the boat - a major hassle, and something that could have been delegated.
Here are some additional suggestions for each student skipper.
Ensure that you have adequate supplies of the following for the entire voyage, and check on this and take appropriate action prior to the day of departure:
Diesel Fuel
Cooking Fuel
Drinking Water
Inventory the boat completely to determine what equipment it has. If you don't know how to get access to your boat, say so.
Charts and Nav Tools
Bring what you have and/or buy what you need.
Minimum recommendation:
Charts- 18740 San diego to Santa Rosa Island or 18746 San Pedro Channel.
Tools - dividers, parallel rules, pencil and eraser, calculator
Galley Equipment and Utensils
Inventory the boat's supply and supplement as you see fit by bringing and/or buying what you need.
Spares / Tools
Inventory the boat's supply and supplement as you see fit by bringing and/or buying what you need.
Dinghies
I have two "pool toys", and Kevin may still have one. You may want to ask Bucky if we can borrow his. Jon Coltrane might have both a dinghy and an outboard. On some trips in the past, we haven't even gotten off the boats so you could probably do without one as well.
Personal Safety Equipment
I have 6 harnesses and tethers (4 belong to SBCC, 2 to me). Suggest you all coordinate as Lou may have some on his boat, and the Scout boats carry some harnesses, I thought maybe Kevin or Larry had bought webbing for jacklines (I have jacklines for my boat) and many crew will have their own gear. Recommend minimum 2 harnesses per boat. I also have 2 handheld VHF radios for those who want them.
This is an organizational topic that can be part of our discussion on the next class meeting. Ted, do you care to take charge of it? |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 303
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:17 pm: |
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Hmmm, maybe we're the two blind men trying to describe the elephant...
The reason I posed the question in the way I did is that its my understanding that in this particular situation Saddleback is subcontracting Aventura to provide Fugga Oui via some sort of charter arragement, the terms of which I am not privy. In my experience that as part of a charter arrangement the company providing the vessel agrees to provide certain items with the vessel, such as possibly charts, cooking gear, a tool kit, etc. Since I don't charter from Aventura I'm not familiar with their policy in this area and was asking for clarification. Similarly I was asking for clarification as to what equipment one should expect Saddleback to provide as part of the class structure (I don't recall it that it was made clear to me in the 2004 session). Given overall requirements, what I should expect from Aventura and what I should expect from Saddleback, I will have a good idea where we might be falling short, and at that point I would then seek the proper sources for the items in question, rather than try to ask everyone for everything...
At this point its my understanding that:
1. We should look to the charter manual on the Aventura boats for a list of equipment that is to be provided on a specific boat, i.e. Aventura doesn't work from a baseline capability point of view.
For items listed but not present should I bring it to the attention of Marc to work with Aventura, or should I work with them directly?
2. For any items desired not found in the vessel's inventory list I should be asking Marc about. From your reply its my understanding is that there is not a Saddleback equipment baseline to work from.
Am I any closer to describing the elephant? |
MarkHowe (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:47 pm: |
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I guess what I meant to say in the below comments is, Ted was asking all the right questions in the wrong way. He should have been asking who has a dinghy he could borrow, anybody have harnesses, can you bring your pots down next week [or what pots will you need], etc.
Sorry Marc. This infringes on your department; just couldn't resist. :-) |
MarkHowe (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:36 pm: |
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Let me answer Ted's post from the Aventura point of view. I will let Marc answer from the MST215 point of view.
Aventura has a handout in the front office that spells out what each boat has. It is up to the chartering skipper to find out what is aboard by actual inspection [Ted has already done that] and then determine what additional equipment and supplies are needed or desired and procure them.
Procurement means figuring out how to ensure that they are aboard prior to departure. It could mean purchase, borrow, see if a crewmember happens to have in seabag, or delegate [that's part of MST215 so I'll leave that there].
Aventura boats have various equipages [is that a word?]. Cooking gas is a variable so check with Aventura. Fuel should be taken care of by Aventura but it is skipper's responsibility to be sure it is done.
Bottom line from my point of view is the Aventura checklist[see syllabus]; be sure everything is ready before setting sail. Marc has checklists too and every skipper will at some point decide on the checklist he/she feels comfortable with and use that as well. That is of course what this course is all about. |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 302
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 11:56 am: |
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Mark, Marc, some questions since this will be my first time using an Aventura vessel as part of a Saddleback class and I'd like to be clear on what we should expect from Aventura and Saddleback (and conversely what we will need to provide ourselves):
1. Who is responsible for providing navigation pubs? nav tools?
2. Who is responsible for providing galley equipment? Eating equipment?
3. Who is responsible for providing spares? tools?
4. Should we expect to have a dingy for use on Fugga Oui?
5. Who is responsible for providing personal safety equipment, such as jacklines, tethers and harnesses?
Thanks,
Ted |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 385
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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Ted,
In the interest of making things easy, and since this is up to each person to either take the initiative or not, let's just let whoever is interested take whatever topic they want. That way we don't get bogged down with administration, and each person can bring their individual passion to the topic at hand.
You, for example, have expressed interest in blue-water and coastal passagemaking issues. And while I would find weather routing of interest, I'm not very interested in seagoing housekeeping or watch planning issues on such a passage. On the other hand you, or someone else in the class, might find these items of great interest and could share the important points with us.
I don't think we have to have a consensus on the list of subjects or make assignments in advance in order to accomplish our objective here: expanding practical knowledge in areas of particular interest.
Take what interests you and run with it. Flesh it out. Share it with us. I've answered my own questions about bleeding the diesel fuel system now, for example, and want to share that stuff next class. That's the basic idea.
Sound Okay? |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 293
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
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Marc, I thought we were to agree on a list of topics then divvy them up according to interest? That way all topics are of interest to others, and there is no overlap... |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 384
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:19 am: |
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MST 215 Students:
Are you guys researching a topic to make a presentation on at this next meeting?
Please either select something from the list or post some new topic here. When you go to work on it, say so to avoid having others duplicate your effort. For example, I made an earlier post saying that for next meeting I'd present info on bleeding the fuel system.
At this next meeting, the 23rd, let's meet at Aventura first to organize this voluntary effort just a bit. Then we'll head down to the Scout docks and look at Half Moon. I expect the material I have will take about an hour including time at the boat, so there will be time for someone else to present findings on their selected topic.
Again, this particular effort is voluntary and depends on your individual initiative, but you'd be nuts to pass up the learning opportunity. If you are unclear about anything in the meantime, make a post here or email me directly.
Marc |
MarkHowe (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:25 am: |
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When you guys get all this figured out, we should include it on the Report Forms for the boats. Make/model of engine, and location and characteristics of bleeder screw/knob. |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 383
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:10 am: |
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Ted, at this moment I don't have any info on any of the engines. I welcome your help on gathering the info.
Marc |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 284
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
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Or perhaps it will be useful to try to determine the make/model ourselves from the markings on the engine, a situation you might find yourself in on a delivery or charter? |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 283
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:43 am: |
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Do you have info on sources for the bleed procedures for Half Moon and La Mouette? If not I can send Bucky an email to see if he has info on the make and model... |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 381
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 09:03 am: |
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For next class I'd like to give you guys the full report on bleeding the fuel system. Most desirable will be to head down to the dock and bleed Pilgrimage's fuel system, then look at the other boats to see how the procedure might differ. |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 380
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 10:49 pm: |
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MST 215 - Other Topics for Research and Reporting
What I'm looking for here is your distillation of the best practices, with room for comment and discussion from the rest of us. Suggestions for topics follow below.
Provisioning
- It's easy over 3 - 5 days when you can keep things cold and the lettuce doen't have time to decompose: what about provioning for several weeks?
Best practices for abandoning ship
- recent events have highlighted problems that even very experienced captains have had, leading to injury and death while the yacht being abandoned stays afloat. How about reviewing the best practices with an eye toward the situations we find ourselves in during this class?
Steering without the rudder
- I mean really steering the boat without having the rudder respond to helm input. How do you get home from the Channel Islands or just Catalina? What are the jury-rig or repair options?
What makes me think of this is how flimsy and awkward the emergency tiller set up is on most coastal cruisers. The factory supplied system on Betty, OCC's new Catalina 42, is just good enough for a calm day under power, but would probably break on the way back from Catalina in a 15 knot breeze. That's a problem.
Just this year on the voyage from Hawaii to San Francisco, Alaska Eagle lost its steering and it was repaired successfully and completely (not jury-rigged) in a couple of hours. So, when a boat like Half Moon loses it's steering, what are you going to do? It might happen this trip. What specifically would you do?
- Another possible complication: Uh, the rudder just fell off (or a whale or Jaws or a semisubmerged shipping container sheared it off).
Dealing with various engine problems
- bleeding the fuel system on the diesel, why and how.
- Changing fuel filters, why and how.
- Diagnosing and treating an overheating engine.
- You get up in the morning and the engine barely turns over and will not start.
- Yep, the water pump impeller is shredded. Now what?
MSD (marine sanitation device) system common problems and solutions
- When bashing to weather the toilet bowl fills and dumps all over the floor.
- Hey, the head doesn't flush.
- Oh no, the maccerator doesn't work and the holding tank is full.
Navigation
- Set and drift in the So Cal bight.
- Taking leeway into account.
- The wind starts out of the South in the AM. What's next?
- Encounters with freighters.
- Cool GPSs and computer hardware and software.
- Best hand-bearing compasses.
- Best binoculars.
- Rule of twelfths for height of tide.
- Rule of thirds for tidal current.
Watchkeeping best practices
- Overnight.
- Multiday coastal.
- Multiday/multiweek offshore.
You're taking on water
- Bilge pump cycles with increasing frequency, where do you start looking.
- The bilge is just now overflowing on to the cabin sole.
- You're up to your knees now.
Examining the Conventional Wisdom (CW)
Comment on why this is true, if it is, or exceptions, nuances, or times when it isn't true.
- CW says when in doubt, let it out.
- CW says sheet for shape, traveller for trim.
- CW says weight in the bow = weatherhelm. |
Ted Lavino
Senior Member
Username: Tlavino
Post Number: 277
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 09:59 am: |
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Greetings fellow students as we discussed at the meeting, here are my suggestions for possible research topics for the 215 class:
A suggestion is to structure the class around planning for a real-world cruise or two such as a coastal passage, for example a 14 day coastal passage from Martinique to Tobago (with stops in between) and/or a blue water passage, say from San Diego to Papiete (Tahiti), possibly contrasting the requirements of the two types of voyages in terms planning and execution. The class would need to decide what kind of information is required (i.e. specific topics to be researched), what sources are available, and do a short writeup, giving sources for others in case they want more info. It could be a kind of self-study thing, each person taking responsibility for one or more areas ding the research and then sharing with the rest of the class the fruits of their labor.
In the spririt of the above, my suggested topics would be the following (in no particular order):
Suggested vessel Characteristics (design, equipment, etc.)
Suggested crew characteristics (number, expertise, temperment)
Vessel preparation (maintenance items, items to be checked
Formalities (i.e. customs, immigration and health procedures)
Weather (sources of information during planning as well as during the voyage, forecasting tools and tips)
Communications tools and procedures (voice, email, licensing issues, proper use and phraseology, etc.)
Provisioning (info on planning, shopping storage (including refrigeration options and requirements), meal planning and preparation)
Advanced navigation topics (GPS issues, clestial navigation, chartplotters, sources of charts and other publications, choosing among various sources, contrasting procedures used in coastal vs. offshore waters, navigation tips and tricks)
Emergency Procedures (fire, hull breach, water above the bilge, abandon ship, etc.)
Heavy Weather Procedures (vessel preparation, tools available, recommendations for different situations and designs of vessels)
Systems Review, with hands-on work for each student skipper on their assigned vessel (electrical systems (generation, protection and storage), mechanical propulsion systems (cooling, fuel), black water systems and fresh water systems, etc.) and instrumentation and electronic systems (depth sounder, knotmeter, radar, GPS, Chartplotter, Auto Pilot and Fluxgate compass, etc.)
Radar (usefuleness, procedures, etc.)
Collision Avoidance Tactics (recognizing a collision situation, stand-on/give way responsibilities, tactics to use to extricate one from a collision situation, etc.)
Lifesaving and Emergency Gear (fire extinguishers (type and use), liferafts, EPIRB, signaling devices, etc.)
Watch Planning (different systems and their advantages and disadvantages for each type of cruise)
Seagoing housekeeping and maintenance plans, suggested standing orders and SOP's, etc.
I'm sure you folks have many others-lets come up with common areas of interest and split up the responsibilities. Marc, possibly we should be working from a master list that you could manage for the group?
Regards,
Ted |
Marc Hughston
Moderator
Username: Hughston
Post Number: 379
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 08:09 pm: |
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MST 215 Syllabus
Here's the whole thing!
Hey David, can you shut this 10-word-thing off?
[Error
Your message is too short. It must have at least 10 words that are at least two letters long. Your message had only 7 such words.]
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