| Author | Message | ||
     Ted Lavino Senior Member Username: Tlavino Post Number: 405 Registered: 01-2004 |
Actually the context in which I was placing this discussion was more along the lines of a 12hr or longer passage with say 2-4 crew. Within the context of this class (or the class aboard the Eagle) I agree that it makes sense to have people hand steer for the experience of doing so. I was bringing up the topic with our voyage fresh in everyone's mind to translate the experience to the real world when one may not have 6-7 crew members to stand watch and what may be done to deal with that situation... | ||
| Marc Hughston Moderator Username: Hughston Post Number: 451 Registered: 03-2003 |
I confess I have no real objection to autopilots or any method of self steering. It's failing to maintain a proper watch when engaging the self steering that I object to. Since we are discussing the subject in the context of this class in which the boats are generally fully crewed, you are failing to address the question of just how to maintain the watch when Otto is steering. My practice in the class setting (only on a long windless passage under power) is to have one person who knows how to disengage the self steering and make immediate course correction do nothing but look ahead and continually assess the situation. As an individual, you can be as risky as you like. In the instructional setting, I think it's a poor example unless hand steering and the alertness that comes with it cannot continue for some reason. You should know, Alaska Eagle has been all over the planet numerous times without any method of self steering, save balancing the sail plan. | ||
| Marc Hughston Moderator Username: Hughston Post Number: 450 Registered: 03-2003 |
Gee, following that logic it seems you could argue that the woman who's putting on her makeup while driving to work with the cruise control set and steering with her knees is safer because by avoiding getting dressed at home she got more sleep and is less fatigued. | ||
| Ted Lavino Senior Member Username: Tlavino Post Number: 404 Registered: 01-2004 |
One item to chew on: its my understanding that the vast majority of cruisers that these days regularly venture on longer passages (i.e. more than a day's voyage) use some sort of wind vane or autopilot or combination of the two to relieve the watch from having to hand steer 100% of the time. In my opinion not being a slave to the helm makes one safer, not the other way around. One has the opportunity to focus on other items such as collision avoidance, etc. when freed from hand steering, in addition to being more alert because you are more rested. As Marc indicates there is the temptation to not maintain a proper watch when not hand steering. But bottom line I think the advantages strongly outweigh the disadvantages on longer passages with the number of crew usually present on smaller vessels. | ||
| David Sheriff Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 49 Registered: 01-2004 |
Compared to crewing a square rigger, anything civilian is wimpy. By definition, considering the mortality and morbidity rates, rounding the horn in a square rigger took 100% of what a person can do. They usually did 2 watches of 4 hrs and all hands for a sail change. In bad weather you might get no sleep for days. Just naps, sometimes standing up. 40 was old for a sailor. I doubt we do even a few percent of the work sailing they did. That said, more than a day of sailing wipes me out for at least a day afterwards. Longer voyages seem to give me back energy they sap initially, so it doesn't take proportionally longer to recover. If you don't nap on a boat frequently, you aren't yet sufficiently sleep deprived. The essence of sailing for me is paying attention, not relaxing. Its recreation precisely because you can lose yourself in it. Bad stuff happens if someone isn't constantly alert. An autopilot is a "good idea" in my experience only when sailing very short-handed and you simply cannot steer and otherwise tend yourself and the boat. | ||
| Marc Hughston Moderator Username: Hughston Post Number: 448 Registered: 03-2003 |
In regard to the autopilot, fatigue is only one issue - there is another. As to the fatigue question, hand steering in anything but mild conditions gives you some excercise, and keeps your mind active. Funny thing about excercise is that rather than wearing you down it gives some life back to you. That's my own anecdotal experience, but there was an article several years ago about a family returning to the states across an ocean in a small boat whose auto pilot died. They hand steered most of the way back and found themselves much more fit and in tune with their boat and its surroundings. That's worth thinking about. Here's the other issue - you are much more likely to hit stuff when on autopilot. You don't see the kelp, you don't see the semisubmerged shipping container, the big sheet of plywood, the drift nets, and the freighter. Why? Becuase Otto is driving and you chose to go below to make some tea, and then something else caught your eye, etc. Where was the woman whose husband, son and daughter died when their boat collided with a freighter in the south pacific? Below. The boat was steering itself. That's worth thinking about. | ||
| Mark Howe Moderator Username: Unclemark Post Number: 212 Registered: 08-2003 |
1. Depends on what you mean by adjust. Some take 45 years to adjust to getting out of bed before 9am. In my experience it takes about three days to get adjusted. That's when the wild parties start keeping other people awake. The military has done some study on the subject of the Power Nap and found that something between 6-20 minutes of rem [rapid-eye-motion] deep sleep is optimal. They got some good evidence for this in Iraq. 2. When you have some depth to your crew like we do, its easy to sail thru the night. Sure there is lots of napping the next day but that's what an anchorage is for isn't it? An interesting discussion topic: is 2, 2 1/2, or 3hr watches the best. Would you rather stand 3 hrs and then not have to get up again for 6 hrs or maybe even 9, or rather do a painless 2 and be on again in 4 or 6. Its important to be sure to take advantage of opportunities to nap when they occur. Particularly skippers since you're always on duty. Its a form of pacing yourself and it is a learned skill. Takes some self discipline too. Instead of sitting around gabbing all the time, you force yourself to go down for the short nap. But not just when your boat captain decides to go over the exam questions. That would be when it would be helpful to have a scheduled time for study. [Before eating a meal, not after] 3. Nah, when ya work hard ya sleep better. Dodgers and biminis get in the way of sailing and visibility. Except in the tropics where a bimini might be more valuable. Wear a big hat. Is sailing getting wimpy or is it my imagination? Read some stories about crewing a square rigger. | ||
| Ted Lavino Senior Member Username: Tlavino Post Number: 403 Registered: 01-2004 |
Greetings folks, seems to me during these voyages that they take a very hard toll on everyone, particularly the overnight sail. Some comments: 1. I've found that it takes about a week or so to adust to splitting one's sleep patterns into two or more chunks, such as would normally occur during a longer passage when you need to sail through the night. During that adjustment period everyone is sleep deprived, and allowances for that should be made in the planning process and during the voyage. 2. During coastal voyages that don't require sailing through the night, I find that keeping voyage lenghts to no more than 4-5 hours maximum goes a long way to preventing fatigue. This is particularly relevant if you're on a charter vacation when the urge is to cover as much ground as possible. By the second or third day everyone is exhausted. Remember, every minute you're on a vessel away from a perfectly flat anchorage your body is doing isometric excercises to keep you balanced. It really adds up after awhile! 3. Use of an autopilot as well as providing shelter from wind and sun via dodger and bimini go a long way to reducing crew fatigue, particularly as leg lengths increase. |
